JohnnyK
Hardcore
http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/
The streaming option sounds interesting for racing- and partygames.
The streaming option sounds interesting for racing- and partygames.
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SteamOS announced
- Thread starter JohnnyK
- Start date
little P
Super Mod
I've always been confused about all this myself. Things like Steam's big picture and media centre etc. all being designed for "the big screen".
I find it much simpler, faster, and quicker to just use standard windows to access my content if we're watching/listening to something on the main tv.
Why do they think we need all this stuff when all you're doing is hooking up a tv instead of a monitor?
I'm not poo pooing it but I think I just don't quite... get it?
I find it much simpler, faster, and quicker to just use standard windows to access my content if we're watching/listening to something on the main tv.
Why do they think we need all this stuff when all you're doing is hooking up a tv instead of a monitor?
I'm not poo pooing it but I think I just don't quite... get it?
I never use Big Picture, actually I hate it. The normal window is just fine for me and I'm with you little P, why do they think we need this crap?
I'm starting to think that Valve is losing their focus or perhaps working very hard on creating a new one. Their always using Source for this and that and doing things with it that few are aware of.
I was really surprised to see Half Life 2 in the video for Leap Motion and wonder what else their up to?.
I was thinking about this today after your Half Life 3 comment in another topic little P and a discussion I was having with a Coworker about id basically being dead; look no further than Rage and Doom 4 for proof.
With id now being a part of Bethesda I wonder how Carmack will fit in the big picture or even if he will?
...a part of me hopes he doesn't find the new digs all that comfortable.
I found myself wishing today that Carmack would meet up with Newall and conspire on HL3 or perhaps a new IP.
I'm starting to think that Valve is losing their focus or perhaps working very hard on creating a new one. Their always using Source for this and that and doing things with it that few are aware of.
I was really surprised to see Half Life 2 in the video for Leap Motion and wonder what else their up to?.
I was thinking about this today after your Half Life 3 comment in another topic little P and a discussion I was having with a Coworker about id basically being dead; look no further than Rage and Doom 4 for proof.
With id now being a part of Bethesda I wonder how Carmack will fit in the big picture or even if he will?
...a part of me hopes he doesn't find the new digs all that comfortable.
I found myself wishing today that Carmack would meet up with Newall and conspire on HL3 or perhaps a new IP.
JohnnyK
Hardcore
As a mediacenter it is redundant, I agree. The streaming is interesting though - you have your gaming PC in your office and stream the games to your TV using a lightweight SteamOS client (perhaps a raspberry pi or a cheap HTPC) to play them like console games.
Not necessarily for me, but this has mass appeal.
Sharing the game library (though independent from the OS) is a nice feature, although less for the power gamer (once my friend plays a game from my library, I can't play any of my games)
There are rumors they will reveal a Steambox and possibly Source 2 (new engine) in the next days.
Not necessarily for me, but this has mass appeal.
Sharing the game library (though independent from the OS) is a nice feature, although less for the power gamer (once my friend plays a game from my library, I can't play any of my games)
There are rumors they will reveal a Steambox and possibly Source 2 (new engine) in the next days.
Steambox, wasn't that their PC/Console bastardized creation?
I actually thought they pulled the plug on that a while back, no?
BTW Johnny, I'm unclear on game sharing independent of OS? Does this mean that you can share games on any supported OS assuming you are logged into the Steam account? I know you can share libraries because I do it on both computers (which is awesome btw!!!) but just a bit unsure of the OS thingamabob
I actually thought they pulled the plug on that a while back, no?
BTW Johnny, I'm unclear on game sharing independent of OS? Does this mean that you can share games on any supported OS assuming you are logged into the Steam account? I know you can share libraries because I do it on both computers (which is awesome btw!!!) but just a bit unsure of the OS thingamabob
JohnnyK
Hardcore
I can share my Steam library with you. While you play any of my games I can't access my own library (not just that particular game) without kicking you out of the game.
Good for eg. trying a game you consider buying or people sharing libraries accross timezones (the latter might be restricted somehow). Maybe it is restricted to family members - the initial announcement did not mention this, but today makes it sound like this might be there.
Again, this has nothing to do with SteamOS and will work in the regular client as well.
Good for eg. trying a game you consider buying or people sharing libraries accross timezones (the latter might be restricted somehow). Maybe it is restricted to family members - the initial announcement did not mention this, but today makes it sound like this might be there.
Again, this has nothing to do with SteamOS and will work in the regular client as well.
Ever hear of Dota2, Team Fortress 2 (Mann vs Machine), Left for Dead 2 or CSGO?
Their releasing games alright just not as many or as frequently as they did in the early to mid 2000's.
A part of me wonders if their making a lot more money via Digitally Distributed 3rd Party Software on Steam than they ever did making games?
This is why I'm conspiracy theorizing over what their up to because I think Valve is mostly known for the Half Life Franchise which they seem to have up and abandoned.
Why would a Game Dev. desert their arguably most famous IP for no apparent reason?
Their releasing games alright just not as many or as frequently as they did in the early to mid 2000's.
A part of me wonders if their making a lot more money via Digitally Distributed 3rd Party Software on Steam than they ever did making games?
This is why I'm conspiracy theorizing over what their up to because I think Valve is mostly known for the Half Life Franchise which they seem to have up and abandoned.
Why would a Game Dev. desert their arguably most famous IP for no apparent reason?
Die Alone
Core
This is a novel idea but without wide spread developer adoption it is doomed to fail. Which beyond a few Indies I think that will happen but really hope I'm wrong. I think this OS is the only way to get the none PC people to take a chance on a PC gaming device other than a console. Because lets face it as far as windows and gaming has come it is still difficult at times to get some things to work as they should. And after this many years it is truly sad. And the keyboard and mouse are less than intuitive as gaming peripherals to the laymen. I really wish Microsoft would never have released a console but instead went all PC and made a gaming OS, it would have worked. And I guarantee that eventually that will happen. But if they made me CEO many years ago as they should have we would already have been there done that and won.
Valve abandon there original plan to do a dedicated steam box for the living room do to PS4 and XboxONE. When they went into the hardware space by hiring dedicated staff to develop a new controller and a dedicated box for the living room. I believe they were assuming that MS and Sony were not going to release in 2013 but instead wait till 2014-15. So they thought they had a window of opportunity to get this thing into the market but once they learned of the pending releases(much prior to us all) they began doubting themselves then threw in the towel. Then fired the staff and went for the generic branded 3rd party boxes(like the Xi3) and software steam os which you see here. I think they made a mistake by not just doing it anyway and stealing some of the luster of the new pending consoles. Where they truely went wrong was not going in balls deep and getting the necessary RND money to go with real dedicated chipset ala MS and Sony's technique. But instead went softly with a skeleton staff working with nearly off the shelf components which lets face it we all knew that approach would fail.
Its been apparent since steams successful growth that Valve's software releases have stalled from in my opinion a choice not to expand but instead just restructured and grew slowly. Yes they still release quality titles but at the same pace they always have a game every year or so. Which I believe if they never went the steam route they would be as large as say Ubisoft and be releasing 5+ games a year. Duke I think is right that they make so much money now off of steam that they dont feel the pressure to release alot of software, so they dont. I think they need to get greedy like the others for that to happen(which hasnt and wont happen).
Valve abandon there original plan to do a dedicated steam box for the living room do to PS4 and XboxONE. When they went into the hardware space by hiring dedicated staff to develop a new controller and a dedicated box for the living room. I believe they were assuming that MS and Sony were not going to release in 2013 but instead wait till 2014-15. So they thought they had a window of opportunity to get this thing into the market but once they learned of the pending releases(much prior to us all) they began doubting themselves then threw in the towel. Then fired the staff and went for the generic branded 3rd party boxes(like the Xi3) and software steam os which you see here. I think they made a mistake by not just doing it anyway and stealing some of the luster of the new pending consoles. Where they truely went wrong was not going in balls deep and getting the necessary RND money to go with real dedicated chipset ala MS and Sony's technique. But instead went softly with a skeleton staff working with nearly off the shelf components which lets face it we all knew that approach would fail.
Its been apparent since steams successful growth that Valve's software releases have stalled from in my opinion a choice not to expand but instead just restructured and grew slowly. Yes they still release quality titles but at the same pace they always have a game every year or so. Which I believe if they never went the steam route they would be as large as say Ubisoft and be releasing 5+ games a year. Duke I think is right that they make so much money now off of steam that they dont feel the pressure to release alot of software, so they dont. I think they need to get greedy like the others for that to happen(which hasnt and wont happen).
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It's hard to say because Valve is so secretive about everything. I've read that Valve is more profitable on an employee to employee basis that they actually make more money comparatively speaking to Apple or even Google.
Back in 2011 or so, Forbes reported that Valve could be worth between $2-4 Billion and that's with game releases trickling out as previously noted.
That's huge revenue for a Developer (Publisher ?) that isn't really Developing or even Publishing all that much.
Even their Website is hiring all kinds of people and even has a "Recommend a Job" spin on things if you think they need to consider another area.
...are they really making that much money off TF2 Micro Transactions and other nickle and dime revenue streams?
You take a look at Steam and I think most people have grown accustomed to it and even have grown to love it a little; I know I have. You really come to appreciate the power of Steam when you have to re-install your OS and re dl/install your Game Library.
I have 2 Steam Accounts and I'm able to use either on either Computer at home or anywhere in the world for that matter. What other Launcher/Store/Browser can boast this type of user freedom; the number is a round one and it rhymes with nero.
It wasn't always that way; it certainly had it's parallels to less than awe-inspiring "me too's" such as Origin and UPlay.
I'm getting off track here but the point is that I truly wonder what it is that Valve is up to? I think they have the resources, I know they have the money and they probably have the talent, so wtf are they actually doing behind closed doors?
Back in 2011 or so, Forbes reported that Valve could be worth between $2-4 Billion and that's with game releases trickling out as previously noted.
That's huge revenue for a Developer (Publisher ?) that isn't really Developing or even Publishing all that much.
Even their Website is hiring all kinds of people and even has a "Recommend a Job" spin on things if you think they need to consider another area.
...are they really making that much money off TF2 Micro Transactions and other nickle and dime revenue streams?
You take a look at Steam and I think most people have grown accustomed to it and even have grown to love it a little; I know I have. You really come to appreciate the power of Steam when you have to re-install your OS and re dl/install your Game Library.
I have 2 Steam Accounts and I'm able to use either on either Computer at home or anywhere in the world for that matter. What other Launcher/Store/Browser can boast this type of user freedom; the number is a round one and it rhymes with nero.
It wasn't always that way; it certainly had it's parallels to less than awe-inspiring "me too's" such as Origin and UPlay.
I'm getting off track here but the point is that I truly wonder what it is that Valve is up to? I think they have the resources, I know they have the money and they probably have the talent, so wtf are they actually doing behind closed doors?
Die Alone
Core
I think what they are doing behind closed doors is not a whole lot given there size and resources. They must be reinventing the wheel on a daily basis only to have another cook in the kitchen say they need to reinvent wings instead. Then they start talking about wings making Gabe hungry and they all head to hooters and call it a day. Tuesday comes about and its rinse and repeat.
I have also grown to love steam. It is quickly turning me from my pirating ways of old. Which was largely initiated because I like to play alot of games and the current AAA prices would break me. So I can do without or pirate it was my only options buying only a few select titles a year. To now in which I have purchased about 60 games on steam this year alone do to sales and the like.
Also it appears Valve has roughly 250 employees of which I assume 70+% are steam related.
I have also grown to love steam. It is quickly turning me from my pirating ways of old. Which was largely initiated because I like to play alot of games and the current AAA prices would break me. So I can do without or pirate it was my only options buying only a few select titles a year. To now in which I have purchased about 60 games on steam this year alone do to sales and the like.
Also it appears Valve has roughly 250 employees of which I assume 70+% are steam related.
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Well their OS actually looks pretty sweet, I wonder if they could tweak it here and there to compete with Windows?
...wouldn't that be great!!!
Apparently Valve has a few more announcements to make so it's anyone's guess over what they'll say? One reviewer I watched though it would be an official word on the LFD3 rumor and perhaps SteamBox.
...wouldn't that be great!!!
Apparently Valve has a few more announcements to make so it's anyone's guess over what they'll say? One reviewer I watched though it would be an official word on the LFD3 rumor and perhaps SteamBox.
Die Alone
Core
It wont matter how nice the OS looks if there isnt a customer base, there wont be developer adoption. And the current Linux library I assume will work as is but is very small in comparison to windows versions. I just dont see any major publisher putting extra money into developing for such a small percentage of the PC market cause they all ready dismiss the Windows market for a large part. And I think this will only get worse with time.
I think Valve may be making a mistake with this OS. Not in its existence but in there approach. They now are splitting the user base of steam, one version for windows and one for there OS/Linux. The only way this would work which is a very risky approach. Is to make all steam sold software forced to have a Steam OS version. Which strengthens there OS but alienates alot of developers at first. But I really dont see it truely working any other way. Because most of us will try it out and see that its a moot point when we can get all it has(games wise) and whole lot more by just sticking with windows version. I know they are hinting at some type of streaming which sounds more like having a separate PC with windows steam running the actual game just displaying on another PC running there new OS. Not sure how good that could be, not really excited about that unless they can eliminate all latency which I highly doubt(just like PS4's gaikai) especially for anything non single player.
On a side tangent. Every new console generation has always made a dent in PC player bases. Because we all go where the games are. Which has really always been on consoles and this new generation closing the graphical gap once again will not help it. I think the consoles are getting to be full on closed OS PC's thus pushing customers away from open OS PC's. Technically PC gaming is actually growing it just doesnt look the same so it has to really be called a console. So really console are now PC's so traditional PC's for gaming is going the way of the dinosaur. It wont happen over night but we are already fully in it and on the road downward.
I think Valve may be making a mistake with this OS. Not in its existence but in there approach. They now are splitting the user base of steam, one version for windows and one for there OS/Linux. The only way this would work which is a very risky approach. Is to make all steam sold software forced to have a Steam OS version. Which strengthens there OS but alienates alot of developers at first. But I really dont see it truely working any other way. Because most of us will try it out and see that its a moot point when we can get all it has(games wise) and whole lot more by just sticking with windows version. I know they are hinting at some type of streaming which sounds more like having a separate PC with windows steam running the actual game just displaying on another PC running there new OS. Not sure how good that could be, not really excited about that unless they can eliminate all latency which I highly doubt(just like PS4's gaikai) especially for anything non single player.
On a side tangent. Every new console generation has always made a dent in PC player bases. Because we all go where the games are. Which has really always been on consoles and this new generation closing the graphical gap once again will not help it. I think the consoles are getting to be full on closed OS PC's thus pushing customers away from open OS PC's. Technically PC gaming is actually growing it just doesnt look the same so it has to really be called a console. So really console are now PC's so traditional PC's for gaming is going the way of the dinosaur. It wont happen over night but we are already fully in it and on the road downward.
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I don't see that happening ever simply because Consoles are a locked development cycle. Sure they can compete with PC now but in a few years, even one year, they'll start to lag behind and it gets worse as time marches on.
The hardware Consoles are released on is already a few years old and can't compete with a new purpose built Gaming PC. The only thing Consoles really have going for them is their plug 'n play and parents buy them because there cheaper and easier to manage than a PC; plus it shuts their kids up.
These Next Gen Consoles are much closer to the Windows based PC's than ever before. The way I understand it, porting back and forth is supposed to be a far simpler process than ever in the history of gaming so maybe we'll see more PC/XBOX/PS3 releases.
Even Console exclusives are starting to make no sense; just look at The Last of Us. Keeping that a PS3 exclusive is absolutely a horrid business decision because everyone else is left out in the cold. Naughty Dog/Sony could easily double their money by releasing on XBOX but don't do it, why, I have no idea?
If they need these exclusives to drive in Console Sales why not release them a month or even a few months earlier for their Platform at a regular price and for other Platforms at an inflated price? I'd pay an extra $10 - $20 to play The Last of Us on my XBOX; it's cheaper than picking up a PS3.
Also with handhelds, how are Consoles going to compete in the long run? There are a number of reputable sites forecasting this may be the last Gen of Consoles we see ever again. Things are getting smaller, faster and more robust than a hard wired console so really what niche is it Consoles will be milking in the years to come?
We're already starting to see Tablet based gaming embraced in Triple A Titles such as Commander Mode for BF4 and The Division.
The PC however is going nowhere. It is the PC that drives Hardware Vendors to push the boundaries of speed and space. Not only that but you don't just play Games on a PC; in fact I'd wager that Gaming isn't the main niche of the typical PC although it probably makes the most revenue overall.
This is what I believe is the thought process behind Valve, Linux based OS's and Steambox. In fact, I'm starting to believe that all this was "bigger picture stuff" Valve envisioned years ago and probably one of the biggest reasons Half Life 2 suffered.
Whether it's this or something else you have to admit, it's strange that in less than one year Valve went from their "Episodic" Half Life 2 release mindset to nothing whatsoever HL2 related. We get Portal and Portal 2 and rumors that it's a test bed for a Portal Gun in Half Life but that's it, the well soon runs completely dry.
Whatever is going on you have to admit, this is the most interesting time in the History of Gaming.
The hardware Consoles are released on is already a few years old and can't compete with a new purpose built Gaming PC. The only thing Consoles really have going for them is their plug 'n play and parents buy them because there cheaper and easier to manage than a PC; plus it shuts their kids up.
These Next Gen Consoles are much closer to the Windows based PC's than ever before. The way I understand it, porting back and forth is supposed to be a far simpler process than ever in the history of gaming so maybe we'll see more PC/XBOX/PS3 releases.
Even Console exclusives are starting to make no sense; just look at The Last of Us. Keeping that a PS3 exclusive is absolutely a horrid business decision because everyone else is left out in the cold. Naughty Dog/Sony could easily double their money by releasing on XBOX but don't do it, why, I have no idea?
If they need these exclusives to drive in Console Sales why not release them a month or even a few months earlier for their Platform at a regular price and for other Platforms at an inflated price? I'd pay an extra $10 - $20 to play The Last of Us on my XBOX; it's cheaper than picking up a PS3.
Also with handhelds, how are Consoles going to compete in the long run? There are a number of reputable sites forecasting this may be the last Gen of Consoles we see ever again. Things are getting smaller, faster and more robust than a hard wired console so really what niche is it Consoles will be milking in the years to come?
We're already starting to see Tablet based gaming embraced in Triple A Titles such as Commander Mode for BF4 and The Division.
The PC however is going nowhere. It is the PC that drives Hardware Vendors to push the boundaries of speed and space. Not only that but you don't just play Games on a PC; in fact I'd wager that Gaming isn't the main niche of the typical PC although it probably makes the most revenue overall.
This is what I believe is the thought process behind Valve, Linux based OS's and Steambox. In fact, I'm starting to believe that all this was "bigger picture stuff" Valve envisioned years ago and probably one of the biggest reasons Half Life 2 suffered.
Whether it's this or something else you have to admit, it's strange that in less than one year Valve went from their "Episodic" Half Life 2 release mindset to nothing whatsoever HL2 related. We get Portal and Portal 2 and rumors that it's a test bed for a Portal Gun in Half Life but that's it, the well soon runs completely dry.
Whatever is going on you have to admit, this is the most interesting time in the History of Gaming.
JohnnyK
Hardcore
SteamBox will likely be a thin client to which you Stream games from your gaming PC. So the actual game library for that OS is irrelevant.
mondo
Hardcore
I don't think it will fail and here is why.
The Wii and WiiU failed (the Wii sold lots of consoles but no games) because of attachment rates were horrible. It was in the 2-3 region. Xbox 360 and PS4 did well because game attachment rate averages were between 12 and 24 depending what average you used.
With Steam you already have a huge user base, in the 10's of millions who have an attachment rate average which I would assume its triple consoles at the tail end of their life span. You've already got past the biggest hurdle which is getting customers to buy into your platform. Its not like they get SteamOS installed then sit there trying to find stuff to do on it, the games are already there.
Will developers switch? In many cases they will bring out support for Linux support. DirectX isn't the be all and end all and plenty of developers already use alternatives like Open GL. The PS3 and probably the PS4 both use something related to Open GL. So your triple A games like Battlefield and Call of Duty already use a system which is also used by Linux. Steam also has a similar system to Sony in that it has first Tier platform games. Rome II is a good example of a Steam exclusive and note that there is a screenshot of this on the logo for the SteamOS. So many developers won't have to switch, just adapt.
If the OS is free you've passed the anther hurdle, if its easy to install that is another covered and finally the last one is can I use it as something more than just a media box? I'm sure they've got this covered somewhere...I need my netflix on my media centre in the front room. The second that they have a decent browser in it, I'm putting this on my HTPC. It won't ever see the light of day on my office machine though - i play too many games outiside of steam that don't have and probably will never have linux support.
Probably the bigger worry to me is driver support for Linux. One of the things Windows really does well is plug and play. Linux historically has been a nightmare in this respect.
Its really odd, Steam is doing what M$ got shouted down over. Yet everyone applauds Steam.
Perfect for my daughter playing Total War: Rome 2 during my work hours. She pestered me very persistently for my password only for this reason. Of ocurse she didn't get it
Die Alone
Core
Basically Duke my point is that consoles are going away, yes(but only how we perceive them). But they will now be PC's which will serve as a PC and a console running SteamOS/XboxOS/SonyOS/OriginOS what ever OS doesnt matter technically but what is important is that they will be closed and locked up OS. Giving all the freedom we now have to the OS makers taking it from us. Thus making what we think of now as a PC gone replaced by something that is a hybrid. This will not stifle hardware makers it will just give them a different approach instead of making a video card they make a whole chipset array that takes its place. So you wont be buying a Geforce 780 it will be a geforce pc/console of sorts that come out much more frequently than consoles do now. This is fact and is happening if you dont see that it doesnt matter its here and the way it will go.
So bottom line consoles are going away, this is the last generation.
And PC's are going away but will take a little longer than the console.
And in its wake will be something different we all will be forced to adopt.
So I'm not saying that the SteamOS will fail entirely just this version of it. It will evolve and change to be the only PC gaming option in a few years(from Valve atleast). And yes they have 10 million+ steam members but 75% dont buy enough games to make developers happy in going the PC route just yet. Because consoles user base is hundreds of millions thus making it not even comparable.
I was one of the few that thought Microsofts first XboxONE policies were a step in the right direction. And once they did the 180 I lost all hope in the company having any real vision. It showed my what I already have seen that they are ran by idiots that have no business doing what they do. There greed and stupidity knows no bounds they promised with the 360 many things then did a 180 and charged us for things they said would be free and user generated. I truely hope the XboxOne fails and is outsold by PS4 making MS do what Sony has done restructured and rethink about how they approach things.
So bottom line consoles are going away, this is the last generation.
And PC's are going away but will take a little longer than the console.
And in its wake will be something different we all will be forced to adopt.
So I'm not saying that the SteamOS will fail entirely just this version of it. It will evolve and change to be the only PC gaming option in a few years(from Valve atleast). And yes they have 10 million+ steam members but 75% dont buy enough games to make developers happy in going the PC route just yet. Because consoles user base is hundreds of millions thus making it not even comparable.
I was one of the few that thought Microsofts first XboxONE policies were a step in the right direction. And once they did the 180 I lost all hope in the company having any real vision. It showed my what I already have seen that they are ran by idiots that have no business doing what they do. There greed and stupidity knows no bounds they promised with the 360 many things then did a 180 and charged us for things they said would be free and user generated. I truely hope the XboxOne fails and is outsold by PS4 making MS do what Sony has done restructured and rethink about how they approach things.
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